Rachel Out of Apple Blossom

[APVal]

No, DonGuido, do YOU really have a clue?  You may be able to handicap, but I don't think you know anything about racehorses.

Again, it doesn't matter who she beats when it comes to lengths.  THE RIDE IS TIMED TO COME OUT THAT WAY.  Read that sentence.  If you still want to say "but she beat nobody and barely" then read it again.  Pay some freaking attention.  Have you ever read about her workouts?  They are just like her races.  Does she work in company with legit horses?  No.  But she isn't asked to crush them just because she can.  THE RIDE IS TIMED TO COME OUT THAT WAY.  Only once did Zenyatta win by open lengths.  It was Mike Smith's first ride on her and it was her first time on dirt and she was in against a considerable rival, so he really asked her for once and she responded.  He admits this and that it was NOT his intention.  Now he knows better.  He doesn't want her to hit the lead early because she'll start slacking off.  THE RIDE IS TIMED TO COME OUT THAT WAY.

And unrelated to the actual topic at hand, though dustino already touched on it, but we've had enough.  You always resort to your condescending ways because of your age.  Calling us "sophomores" only proves that your are not nearly as mature as you like to think you are.  You don't see us resorting to calling you a geezer.  I do not know where you get off thinking that your age makes you better, wiser, or just plain smarter, but somehow it does.  It doesn't matter how long you've been alive.  I work at a place where some of these people have been since they were practically born, and yet I find that I know more about horses than they do.  Age does not equate knowledge, and you prove this continuously.  It's time to accept the fact that being older does not automatically mean what you say is worth more than what we say.  Frankly, you are just plain rude about it.

[Red Bishop]

"No, Don Guido, do YOU really have a clue?  You may be able to handicap...."

The guy couldn't hit a quinella in a match race.

[DonGuido]

No, DonGuido, do YOU really have a clue?  You may be able to handicap, but I don't think you know anything about racehorses.

Again, it doesn't matter who she beats when it comes to lengths.  THE RIDE IS TIMED TO COME OUT THAT WAY.  Read that sentence.  If you still want to say "but she beat nobody and barely" then read it again.  Pay some freaking attention.  Have you ever read about her workouts?  They are just like her races.  Does she work in company with legit horses?  No.  But she isn't asked to crush them just because she can.  THE RIDE IS TIMED TO COME OUT THAT WAY.  Only once did Zenyatta win by open lengths.  It was Mike Smith's first ride on her and it was her first time on dirt and she was in against a considerable rival, so he really asked her for once and she responded.  He admits this and that it was NOT his intention.  Now he knows better.  He doesn't want her to hit the lead early because she'll start slacking off.  THE RIDE IS TIMED TO COME OUT THAT WAY.

And unrelated to the actual topic at hand, though dustino already touched on it, but we've had enough.  You always resort to your condescending ways because of your age.  Calling us "sophomores" only proves that your are not nearly as mature as you like to think you are.  You don't see us resorting to calling you a geezer.  I do not know where you get off thinking that your age makes you better, wiser, or just plain smarter, but somehow it does.  It doesn't matter how long you've been alive.  I work at a place where some of these people have been since they were practically born, and yet I find that I know more about horses than they do.  Age does not equate knowledge, and you prove this continuously.  It's time to accept the fact that being older does not automatically mean what you say is worth more than what we say.  Frankly, you are just plain rude about it.

Just got back from walking the dogs. OMG . . .  APV, feel better now?  And Dustino, you know I'm a big fan . . . I've been chillin for ohhhh 40 years at least and if you say "old",  I say " wiser".  But what's in a name?  Now I am going to bed.  Ir's spring break even for us 'Geezers".  Heh heh!!??  Ya gotta love it.  

I will totally try and refrain from this "debate" as you call it and resort to more respectful and friendly (maybe more "old"  territory) at the handicapping forum .  You "kids" (if I must be condescending) , sorry, just get my ire up.  That's all.  OK?

Ga'night.

[DonGuido]

"No, Don Guido, do YOU really have a clue?  You may be able to handicap...."

The guy couldn't hit a quinella in a match race.

Now that's hilarious.   

[forego]

OK, everybody calm down. This site is like one big internet family, we argue and we insult but we mean well. Everybody got their barbs in so lets just calm down and move on.

[SweetDefense]

I think one of the biggest things is that Jackson probably convinced himself that nobody of importance would show up to run against Rachel in an 8.5f race over a track that she loves with 'only' a 200k purse.  Without a Zardana in the field - probably how JJ expected it would be - she still wins that race by a dozen lengths or so.  It just so happens that Zardana did show and gave Rachel more than she bargained for with the tank at 75 or 80 percent.  Run this race in mid-April, Rachel wins by 8 under wraps.  

Exactly. And the comments on here are mild (so far) compared to those on a model horse email list from Zenyatta fans, which amuses me no end, particularly coming from people who have no clue about racing. 

[mariasmon]

Sheesh.  This is reminding me of the conversations at FT surrounding Barbaro's injury/recovery/death.  Where Ole Bob and that other guy (whose handle I can't remember) acted like no one who hadn't worked around horses for 30+ years could possibly have a valid opinion on the situation.  Or like my mom saying that none of my aches and pains could possibly be worse than hers, because she's 28 years older than I am.

[DonGuido]

So looking at my posts this morning I can see I was a little over zealous and yes, condescending.  That's what one too many glasses of wine will do to ya.  And unlike the movie "Love Story", I believe that caring means never being afraid to say you're sorry.

Thanks in advance for accepting my apology,
DG 

Off today and going on an Indian Run with Anet.   

[BigCountry]

Wow, are we really going go through this mental masturbation all over again?  The nicest thing about February and half of March was how we didn't have to hear about the "Rachel is only a little better than Mine That Bird and Macho Again blah blah blah" and "Call me when Zenyatta beats a top male on a dirt track blah blah blah" or "Rachel beat Summer Bird by more lengths than Zenyatta did" or "Where was Rachel in the Breeders' Cup?"  It was pleasant, wasn't it? 

I'd say that Rachel Alexandra, at 100%, is a superior racehorse to Anabaa's Creation, who Zenyatta struggled to run down last summer.  But honestly, who really cares? 

My point is there's an insanity to arguing with *100% certainty* that a perfectly fit Rachel would beat Zenyatta *100%* of the time. Rachel at 100% struggled with Mine That Bird and struggled with Macho Again. Might she beat Zenyatta? Sure. But the ONLY sure thing in racing is that there aren't sure things. Seemingly better horses get beat by inferior ones ALL the time. Rachel nearly did twice last spring/summer, so to suggest that she's be impervious to the charge of an undefeated multiple champion...

[Somnambulist]

Anabaa's Creation.

And almost doesn't count. It doesn't matter if a horse was *almost* beaten. They still won.

[BigCountry]

Anabaa's Creation.

Which, ya' know, proves my point.

[Somnambulist]

Which, ya' know, proves my point.

That's what I get for skimming.

[derby624]

The other thing is that it's not like Rachel got her ass whopped. She dug in and still tried, and attempted to come back on even after she was passed. I'd truly be concerned if she finished up the track. All yesterday's race proved to me is that she's not 100% fit. She'll be much sharper next time out.

Exactly!!
I am still in denial that she lost and would like a do-over. I blame the connections 100%....why change the tack if what was working for her all of 2009 worked?!?!! Why push her to race when you openly admitted she wasn't ready? Jess Jackson fell for the hype as much as anyone and wanted to push her. Shame. I hope they all will get their heads back on straight and she will have an awesome 2010!
RA was not a happy camper on Sat. - she had nothing familiar to her and nothing went her way as she is used to. I hope the lesson was learned by the connections...even if it was the hard way.

[greyhorse]

There are many options for them to face off.  I'm not sure why the Apple Blossom would "count" any more than the Stephen Foster or Beldame. 

The Apple Blossom was the fairest possible place for them to meet because Oaklawn is the only track they've both run and won on. At any other venue, a match up won't be as fair and it won't "count" quite as much because of the fact that one horse has more experience than the other going in.

[forego]

No possible result (short of a deadhead) could possibly satisfy the rabid fans (and there are a lot on both sides) of either horse. If Zenyatta loses, her fans and probably her owners will be in disbelief and will probably think up some excuses. Same goes for Rachel's fans and connections. I've never seen anything like this in horse racing since I've been following the sport. Smarty, Funny Cide, Silver Charm, exc, they all had large fan bases because of the exposure through the Triple Crown. Rachel and Zen probably have more narrow fan bases but their fans are probably the most loyal and passionate groups I've seen in racing. Its kind of like Yankees and Red Soxs except they only ever have proxy match ups,lol. So there are two very rabid fan bases and neither takes kindly to losing whether it be in a HOY vote or a comeback race.

So... at some point, they either meet or they don't but the setting and the outcome can't possibly satisfy both sides. But that shouldn't stop it from happening. For any match up to happen, it require both to get on a winstreak which means Rachel has to get hot again.  I don't see either group racing against the other off of a loss unless its a prep for the BCC. Even then, I don't think team Rachel wants the match up to happen in the BCC so imho it'll probably have to happen mid to late summer but who knows...